See! Look at all the Love. You folks are Way Faboo!

i'm still not really getting what erik t thinks he is saying...
there are communities (very real indeed in america), asia communities which are some times divided by country, latino/hispanic communities also divided the same way, irish communities, russian communities, greek communities, like there used to be (and in some places still are) ethnic neighborhoods. the communities, like regional lesbigayetc communities in almost every city i've been to. it would seem like i have not traveled as much as erik t, but i have been all over the country, and lived in san francisco seattle new orleans minneapolis and philly among other places. surely i've never been to africa east (ethiopia) south (apartheid) west (senegambia) or north (morroco). nor have i been to the netherlands or wherever. america seems to use the word community- i can assume what terms other countries use by whichever language that dominates their areas that equates to our concept of "community". i will not talk about about another community that i am not apart of. by the way i love collards and cornbread. my mother was born to the chinese community of san francisco, but being a young hippy in the '60s she did not take part of her heritage. my father was born to chicano parents but he seems to know nothing about mexico or mexican culture. i cam out of the closet as a teenager and found that the "gay" community had very little to offer me. having spent most of my life in san francisco i can affirm that there is something that is at least faking community whether that is a real thing or not. like asian or hispanic, sure- there are "gays", lesbians, trannies of varying genders, leather community (are they real?) of varying sexual preferences, bears, guppies, and so forth, even queer radicals like me who are a part of the lgbt community unlike me. i don't fit in to the "gay" community. i think (meaning- this is the way it seems to me based on my experience in perspective) it is predominantly classist and pretentious. it is good that there are queer youth groups helping runaway teenagers deal with problems associated with their situations in a hostile society. i know a lot of african american queers who have a hard time finding acceptance in a black community that is very real to them. often they will find that the "gay" community is not that kind to them either. when i visited the william way center in philly, the asshole at the counter gave me a lot of impolite attitude. i don't know if he cared if i was a man who has sex with men or thought i wasn't based on my appearance, but i can't imagine he was like that to every one. and i was very nice. however, that is some thing i am use to in the gay community. happy happy happy!

Same here.

thanks for the definition travis! i guess that was the point i was trying to get at.
ryan, i am sure we agree on most points- especially that the media has no right to lump every one who engages in sex with some one of their own gender, at least not in the same way that they seem to suggest that all "gays" are alike, for example.
that is not what i was getting at.
many lgbt people feel they are a part of a community, and often refer to that as the lgbt community.
it sounds like people are telling them that they are deluded, in the same way that bi-phobia tries to tell bisexuals that they are in denial and all that blah-blah.
thanks, by all means, for your input. it is less that i am trying to disagree than to ask others to try to take a look at what they are saying.
i suppose i am hoping that one day there will be a sense of queer solidarity, but if that happens i know i will never think that every one who identifies with queer is going to want to be a part of that solidarity. collective support really is an individual issue and no one should be ostracised for their refusal to participate, nor should any one be thrown in with said lot if they would rather be involved with a more sympathetic community or remain completely on their own.

>> They used to say that "gay" was a
>> specific way for homosexual people
>> to be--it meant being out, being
>> comfortable with one's identity.
>> By that token, not all homosexual
>> people were necessarily "gay."

used to?? hell, i still support this line of reasoning.

i have a hard time with folks who argue that they're "born Gay."

for me, being Gay appears to be the result of
innate factors (e.g., genetics)
environmental factors (e.g. in utero hormone levels)
and CHOICE.

i don't understand why CHOICE seems like a dirty word for so many Gay people.

HELLO?!?! We CHOOSE to come of the closet. It's a choice that takes strength and courage. I could choose to pretend i'm a heterosexual and that would make my life easier in some respects.

as for the word "separate"

i don't like it cause "separate" has connotations of division, disconnection, alienation and isolation.

i see occasional experiences of separatism as a means to an end, not an end in itself. that end is knowing ourselves, knowing our gifts and knowing our places in the world. Gay people who regard ourselves as a "third gender" are still defining ourselves in relation to the big two. we are an integral part of every human community. any tribe, community or organization that rejects its Queers or fails to incorporate Queer insights and contributions is a community that is incomplete, dysfunctional and inherently flawed. IMNSHO< we Queers need to fins ways to integrate outselves into society without assimilating and losing our unique qualities, perspectives and gifts.